Gods plan is flawed as is the concept of god itself!

[Minimalist]

God's 'plan' does not include events whatsoever, and it certainly does not disallow the treatment of people in need of medical care!

So....in effect.....god's plan is anything that happens.

Why do we need a 'god' to enact that? It seems like the phrase SHIT HAPPENS is more to the point.

[chatpilot]

When I speak of gods plan I am strictly referring to his so called overall plan to restore the relationship between himself and mankind. The way I see it mankind sinned and disobeyed god, he instituted animal sacrifices as a way to temporarily cover the sins of man, this was symbolic of the ultimate sacrifice that was to come through the person of Christ which is supposed to wipe away the sin completely and restore mankind to god if you accepted him and fulfilled his requirements. I too have heard of Christians, mostly fundies relegating all sorts of occurrences and misfortunes to gods so called plan. Fundies in general tend to have a more overall view on god and his plan and they believe that this god is very personal and involved with every aspect of the believer.

There are so many things that are explained so much easier by acknowledging that these things happen naturally. Adding god to everything you experience in life for better or for worse just complicates issues more and goes into the realm of speculating about god and his intentions with the individuals that serve him.

[Zen Badger]

I don't think I'm going to comment on population control. Will the human race ever transcend? IDK, and I agree that with the modernities of science we would have it tough surviving.. wait.. what did we do before science.. hmm....

Before science there weren't as many of us 'cos we died young(usually before breeding)

So in a way we are victims of our own scientific sucess's.

Since science allows us to have a much bigger population base than before. But only science, remove

that and millions of people would die leaving only a core of survivors.

Getting back to this god person.

Considering his track record you wouldn't let him remodel your kitchen, would you?

[tackattack]

remodel yes.

[Minimalist]

remodel yes.

If he can get the job done in six days, why not?

[Watson]

You clearly don't understand what 'God's plan' means. Stop listening to the so-called religious idiots and go talk to someone who actually know their shit.

I don't understand? This is what legions of religious dingbats have told me. They have told me that "God" has a plan. That we may not understand why things happen, but everything is part of "God's" plan. When I ask them if a child getting cancer is part of this deity's "plan", they say yes! They say there is a reason, then they speculate on what this reason could be (teach someone a lesson, develop the child's character, etc.)

God's 'plan' does not include events whatsoever,

Not according to what others have told me.

You can not pevent God's 'plan' from going forward, it already has, and it always will.

Well, then, what is this "plan"?

Haha, wow.

You laugh at this, but there are dopes who refuse medical attention on religious grounds. Which is fine as far as I'm concerned. We can always use more nominees for the Darwin Awards. What outrages me is when they try to prevent their kids from getting medical treatment.

Again, all of these points you make can be answered with what I said in the first place, and that which you clearly ignored.

Stop listening to the so-called religious idiots and go talk to someone who actually know their shit.

There are those who think they've got it all figured out, read the Bible and apply it to what they see, which is very backwards. It's not sad, though, it's to be expected. That's how humans are, they find something and they say "This! Look at this! This right here, this is the answer/great/correct."

The term 'God's plan' is a bit misleading. When I think of 'God's plan' I think of the world around me, the life I'm leading and that others are leading. Not that He chose their path for them, only they can do that, but that He built the path on which they are walking. Sort of like an architect who builds a house and then leaves it be. He doesn't go into the house and deman you walk around it in a certain way.

So basically God takes credit for everything we do.

But prayer works.

And God is real.

You just can't verify his existence.

Wut? Prayer works, but not when you merely ask for simple things or for unrealistic occurences. Prayer is stating the goal to someone who loves you, and having that person(God) tell you that the goal is achievable. You don't ask God to grant you a miracle, you ask God to show you the miracle and let you have the understanding to rcognize it for what it is. You don't ask god to heal you, you ask God to help you through the healing.

But by all means, don't wait on a loving God to grant you a miracle if you get your arm severed or something.

Because this...isn't how...miracles...work? Yeah, pretty much. You answered your own damn question.

If everything is in God's plan, he is:

1. Very inefficient
2. Apathetic
3. Contradictory in terms of free will.

Notice the analogy I made about the architect. The architect created the entire house, and let's say he's a contracted architect so he did it just for you. Not only that, He loves you(the architect is God), and so he built the best possible house to allow you free will. If you break shit in the house, it isn't His fault, it's yours. But no matter what you do, He's still not going t ogo into the house and force you to walk around in it a certain way. That's not a very loving thing to do, and on top of that, you don't learn anything from it.

So....in effect.....god's plan is anything that happens.

Why do we need a 'god' to enact that? It seems like the phrase SHIT HAPPENS is more to the point.

God's plan is anything that happens, yes. Shit happens, YES. We need God to create that and give it to us, as a gift, and to help us as a guide through the harder, grimier parts of the shit we're walking through. Love is the ultimate motivator.

[Thor]

Again, all of these points you make can be answered with what I said in the first place, and that which you clearly ignored.

Stop listening to the so-called religious idiots and go talk to someone who actually know their shit.

There are those who think they've got it all figured out, read the Bible and apply it to what they see, which is very backwards. It's not sad, though, it's to be expected. That's how humans are, they find something and they say "This! Look at this! This right here, this is the answer/great/correct."

The term 'God's plan' is a bit misleading. When I think of 'God's plan' I think of the world around me, the life I'm leading and that others are leading. Not that He chose their path for them, only they can do that, but that He built the path on which they are walking. Sort of like an architect who builds a house and then leaves it be. He doesn't go into the house and deman you walk around it in a certain way.

Funny how you describe "God's plan" completely different than anyone else I've ever talked to. How am I to know that what you say is true? Other people I've talked to are certain their belief is true. Why should I believe you?

BTW, your version actually makes sense if you believe in a deity that does not get involved with people's lives.

Because this...isn't how...miracles...work? Yeah, pretty much. You answered your own damn question.

Why not? There are a number of places in the Bible where it explicitly states that you can have anything you want if you pray for it, as long as you believe.

[Watson]

Funny how you describe "God's plan" completely different than anyone else I've ever talked to. How am I to know that what you say is true? Other people I've talked to are certain their belief is true. Why should I believe you?

Such is the nature of being human. People disagree, people interpret in different ways. The difference is, mine is based on a logical observation and comparison of reality as compared to other peoples 'interpretations' of reality. I'm not saying you should believe me. That would suggest I'm trying to tell you what to believe. I'm saying that you should observe the world around you, then compare it to what I said.

BTW, your version actually makes sense if you believe in a deity that does not get involved with people's lives.

Not exactly. I believe that not only does God get involved in people's lives, He is constantly involved in them.

Because this...isn't how...miracles...work? Yeah, pretty much. You answered your own damn question.

Why not? There are a number of places in the Bible where it explicitly states that you can have anything you want if you pray for it, as long as you believe.

You can have anything you want, but not if you pray for things you don't already have. Everything a person desires is actually within themself already. Usually by praying, they discover hey had it all along, and only lack it because they refuse to acknowledge it.

Sort of like how atheists deny having faith.

[Minimalist]

You can have anything you want, but not if you pray for things you don't already have.

John 15

7If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you.

So, you think John is full of shit? How odd.

So do I.

[Thor]

Such is the nature of being human. People disagree, people interpret in different ways. The difference is, mine is based on a logical observation and comparison of reality as compared to other peoples 'interpretations' of reality. I'm not saying you should believe me. That would suggest I'm trying to tell you what to believe. I'm saying that you should observe the world around you, then compare it to what I said.

I do observe the world around me, which is why I find the notion of a deity who is "all-powerful, all-knowing and all-loving" to be impossible. A walk through the cancer ward of a children's hospital is enough to convince me of this.

You can have anything you want, but not if you pray for things you don't already have.

A blind person prays for sight. He remains blind. Kind of shoots down your statement.

Everything a person desires is actually within themself already. Usually by praying, they discover hey had it all along, and only lack it because they refuse to acknowledge it.

Sort of like how atheists deny having faith.

There are two types of faith; reasonable faith and blind faith. I have faith that, when I'm flying, the pilot will land the plane safely. This is reasonable faith because it is based on my knowledge that planes seldom crash and I know that pilots must be highly trained and experienced. Now, if some random guy was plucked from the passenger list, tossed behind the wheel and told to land the plane, I would have NO faith in him. If I did, that would be BLIND faith because there is no good reason I should expect him to be able to land the plane. Belief in a deity is completely blind because it is based on nothing. You can't compare the two.