Songs of Praise

[Craveman]

I have to agree with Frodo here.
If I were in the crowd and someone claimed to turn water into wine I'd wonder how the trick was done.
I would not think this man must be God, I'd think he was a magician.
But how do we know they werent tricks, If they could be interpreted as tricks whats to say the weren't.

It wouldnt be the only time people performed tricks and claim they are real. (I'm looking at you Yuri Geller)

I agree with you that some miracles might have left some of these primative, Nomadic goat herders wondering but certain miracles (or tricks as you might call them) simply just can't be explained. Imagine you had a brother callled Lazarus. You've seen him die and you buried him yourself. He has been dead for 4 days. Then a guy called Jesus comes along who claims that he is the saviour and the son of God and raises your brother from the dead. You are not going to see that as a trick but rather as a miracle and proof of God! Here is the story of Lazarus: (http://christianity.about.com/od/biblest...azarus.htm)

Or imagine you were blind, crippled and Jesus healed you? Then you're actually part of his miracle. How can you possibly take it as a trick? At the moment you are looking at the miracles through modern day eyes. The fact is that these people were primative and the miracles conclusive. Some you simply can't refute.

Here are some more (not even Yuri Geller or David Blain can pull these ones off ):

· The ten plagues of Egypt, The parting of the Red Sea, Healing of the leper (Matthew 8), Calming of the sea (Matthew 8), The blind men healed (Matthew 9), A man with the withered hand (Matthew 12), The feeding of the multitude (Matthew 14), Walking on water (Matthew 14), · The little child near death healed (Mark 4), The lame man made whole (John 5), The blind man healed (John 9).

[downbeatplumb]

I have to agree with Frodo here.
If I were in the crowd and someone claimed to turn water into wine I'd wonder how the trick was done.
I would not think this man must be God, I'd think he was a magician.
But how do we know they werent tricks, If they could be interpreted as tricks whats to say the weren't.

It wouldnt be the only time people performed tricks and claim they are real. (I'm looking at you Yuri Geller)

I agree with you that some miracles might have left some of these primative, Nomadic goat herders wondering but certain miracles (or tricks as you might call them) simply just can't be explained. Imagine you had a brother callled Lazarus. You've seen him die and you buried him yourself. He has been dead for 4 days. Then a guy called Jesus comes along who claims that he is the saviour and the son of God and raises your brother from the dead. You are not going to see that as a trick but rather as a miracle and proof of God! Here is the story of Lazarus: (http://christianity.about.com/od/biblest...azarus.htm)

Or imagine you were blind, crippled and Jesus healed you? Then you're actually part of his miracle. How can you possibly take it as a trick? At the moment you are looking at the miracles through modern day eyes. The fact is that these people were primative and the miracles conclusive. Some you simply can't refute.

Here are some more (not even Yuri Geller or David Blain can pull these ones off ):

· The ten plagues of Egypt, The parting of the Red Sea, Healing of the leper (Matthew 8), Calming of the sea (Matthew 8), The blind men healed (Matthew 9), A man with the withered hand (Matthew 12), The feeding of the multitude (Matthew 14), Walking on water (Matthew 14), · The little child near death healed (Mark 4), The lame man made whole (John 5), The blind man healed (John 9).

The ten plagues of Egypt conform pretty well to what would happen in the event of a supervolcanic eruption.

Parting the red sea may have been the reed sea sea which is a sort of marsh where the waters part in a strong wind.

The above two I think were natural events claimed by the religious to make their claims more forcefull.

As for the healings, I'd like to see the full medical records and the treating Drs history before making any judgements.

As the blind man said in the life of brian 'I was blind but now I can see' just before falling in a hole.

I work in the medical field, and have seen a lot of spurious claims made that were not backed up by the records.

[Craveman]

It's quite the opposite - the reasoning for God requires that there be no proof.

Aren't all the miracles and Jesus proof for Christianity? If what you stated above is true then God would never have performed any miracles and Jesus would never have shown himself on earth.

downbeatplumb: This is where it all started. frOdO argues that there be no proof. Do you agree with him on this point then? I argue that Jesus (in the flesh) and some of the miracles are. I still agree with you that certain miracles might leave people wondering but don't see how all can be explained. (Remember that I'm arguing from a xtian pov to try and prove my point so I'm going to take all the miracles in the Bible as true)

So if all the miracles did happen and Jesus did die on the cross and rose again after, how would you explain it (as a person living in that time)? Imagine your were Thomas: "A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!". Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe." Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

If you were one of the deciples won't you take this as proof?

[Violet]

I'd take it as either proof, or very good evidence at the least

[fr0d0]

Your friends would call you delusional Sae

[Violet]

Your friends would call you delusional Sae

They'd be right!

Luckily, he appeared to more people as well

[Craveman]

Thx Sae! There is a very cheesy line in Top Gun that goes "You can be my wingman any time" (With heartbreaking music in the background of course)

[Rhizomorph13]

Lol @Craveman,

I've heard an interpretation of the whole Lazarus/Jesus "returning from the dead" as an early experiment with some form of zombie powder. Anyone familiar with, "The Serpent and the Rainbow." would know what I am talking about. There is a blowfish with a certian chemical (Yes, some preperations are made with poison frogs but not the one spoke of in the movie) that, when taken in the right dosage, will cause a death-like paralysis. The way the story goes, Jesus knew he was going to be targeted for execution so rather than fight it he and his disciples crafted a potion that would only simulate death and Lazarus was the first experiment. So, no wonder Jesus was all non-chalant when he heard about Lazarus' death. Now flash forward to a certain rag used to wet Jesus' lips and voila! Magic managed!

Rhizo