I had a lengthy discussion with a theist friend about the existence of God. He sort of trapped me in a difficult situation and I’d like to discuss it here:
(This can be considered the extension of the ‘first cause’ argument.)
The universe we live in is limited and everything in it either depends on something else or some physical laws. Every dependent and limited thing is created or produced by or out of some other thing which in tern is, again limited and dependent. Now, common sense requires that this chain of cause and effect should end somewhere. But the paradox is that where can this be stopped? Because whenever we claim someone of something to be the first cause, we can label it an effect of some other cause. For a cause to be first cause, three of the following possibilities exist:
1- That the First Cause, was in turn created by some other cause.
2- That First Cause created itself.
3- That First Cause was neither created by someone else neither created itself and is infinite and independent and hence the force theists know as God.
That friend of mine ruled out the first cause by saying that if that cause is created by some other cause, it would be dependent and hence cannot be the first cause and hence we would have to extend the chain further. This rules out the first point.
The second point does not comply with common sense and logic and needs to any further discussion.
After ruling out the two points, he said that logic required that if we have three points and two of them are ruled out, the third is the only possibility. And thus he supported his claim that God exits which is infinite, independent and was not created by anything.
I was reluctant in agreeing with this all, so he challenged me to put forward a fourth possibility, and that’s what I’m here for. I’m having problems with this. Would someone help me out in finding out the fourth or any other possibilities other than the three put forward? It would also be great if you point out any flaws in the above premises.
(This can be considered the extension of the ‘first cause’ argument.)
The universe we live in is limited and everything in it either depends on something else or some physical laws. Every dependent and limited thing is created or produced by or out of some other thing which in tern is, again limited and dependent. Now, common sense requires that this chain of cause and effect should end somewhere. But the paradox is that where can this be stopped? Because whenever we claim someone of something to be the first cause, we can label it an effect of some other cause. For a cause to be first cause, three of the following possibilities exist:
1- That the First Cause, was in turn created by some other cause.
2- That First Cause created itself.
3- That First Cause was neither created by someone else neither created itself and is infinite and independent and hence the force theists know as God.
That friend of mine ruled out the first cause by saying that if that cause is created by some other cause, it would be dependent and hence cannot be the first cause and hence we would have to extend the chain further. This rules out the first point.
The second point does not comply with common sense and logic and needs to any further discussion.
After ruling out the two points, he said that logic required that if we have three points and two of them are ruled out, the third is the only possibility. And thus he supported his claim that God exits which is infinite, independent and was not created by anything.
I was reluctant in agreeing with this all, so he challenged me to put forward a fourth possibility, and that’s what I’m here for. I’m having problems with this. Would someone help me out in finding out the fourth or any other possibilities other than the three put forward? It would also be great if you point out any flaws in the above premises.
