Russia and Ukraine

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

According to Wikipedia, Russia has 5,977 nuclear warheads. And of course modern ones are more powerful than the ones they had during the Cuban Missile Crisis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia_and...estruction

Remember that Kennedy convinced Russia to stand down by standing down US missiles in Turkey. The USSR didn't want enemy missiles so close, just as the USA didn't want them in Cuba. 

Nearby nukes are considered a provocation. Fortunately, both Sweden and Finland have announced that even if they join NATO they will not accept nukes being based in their countries. 

https://uk.style.yahoo.com/sweden-spurn-...v4BH0FC0as

I’m not going to discuss the content of this message. Instead I’m going to show you the last declarations that were made by his excellency of the Bosphorus:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/turkey-seeks-...05508.html
 
The respectable gentleman just said that: “The West, and especially the U.S., is attacking Russia seemingly endlessly,” and that “We are working on how to create a peace corridor here, like we had the grain corridor. We think the best way for this is a path from dialogue to peace”
 
And here is another link on the credulity of this second declaration:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/turkish-prose...05693.html
 
The most renowned person just passed an unconstitutional “Disinformation Law” that leave huge rooms of maneuver of any court to make totally arbitrary decisions on persons who are taken to court because of this new legislation. All legal experts are affirming that this “Law” isn’t really a law that bears the typical characteristics of an ordinary law in any type of real jurisdiction. It is a technical error all by itself. And now the most pious man among the most pious men is trying to use it against someone called Ekrem Imamoglu who is the Major of Istanbul and a potential rival to the AK Party in the general election of July (which is said to be another desperate attempt by the “ruler” to show his might to the public, which is not likely to works because it is likely to mobilize even more people against his ideology).
 
I just shared these messages so that you know that I know how authoritarian leaders operate and how they use the tool of false information, lies, disinformation, false moves and all types of deception by every mean that is available to them in order to be able to fool the entire population (themselves included) to impose their own twisted ideology.

And here is the third stupidity in one day:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/erdogan-says-...37904.html
 
The one with the most beautiful moustache on earth just said:
“Turkey's effort to complete its purchase of F-16 jets would be "much easier" if Republicans end up controlling the U.S. Senate,”
 
Reality: Turkey was part of the F-35 next generation fighter jet program and some vital components of these planes were produced in this country. But the one who looks so fine bought outdated S-300 missile defense systems from Russia (who are not even being used because they are not even compatible with an army with NATO standards like the Turkish Army). The S-300 will not be used anytime soon and are just sitting in a military depot somewhere.
 
   For this we were kicked out of the F-35 program. Our Airforce will be even weaker than several Middle-eastern countries like Egypt who are acquiring French Mirage fighter jets. And now he is begging the US for F-16’s who will become obsolete in 10-20 years.
 
So when I say “I know how such systems or such people operate” believe me, I do.

I’m not sure Erdogan’s prospective peace talks will go anywhere. Ukraine wants Russia to vacate all occupied territory before there’s any discussion of peace. Russia says this condition is a non-starter.

Boru

[Thumpalumpacus]

From ISW:

Putin is having a harder time appeasing parts of the highly ideological pro-war constituency due to his military’s inability to deliver his maximalist goals of overthrowing the Ukrainian government and seizing all of Ukraine, as ISW has previously assessed.[2] Putin’s nationalist-leaning propagandists such as Vladimir Solovyov are increasingly demanding that the Kremlin and higher military command to fully commit to their goals in Ukraine, and Solovyov even called for full mobilization and the firing of incompetent officials following the Russian surrender of Kherson City.[3] Select milbloggers have previously criticized Putin for his failure to respond to the attack on the Kerch Strait Bridge on October 9, while others noted that Putin has failed to uphold the ideology of Russian superiority since 2014.[4] Direct criticism of Putin within the pro-war community is almost unprecedented, and Dugin’s high-profile and unhinged attack on Putin may indicate a shift among the Russian nationalist ideologues.[5] Putin needs to retain the support of this community and has likely ordered some of his propagandists to suppress any critiques of the Russian withdrawal from Kherson City, since many state TV news programs have been omitting or downplaying the aftermath of withdrawal.[6] The ever-increasing doubts among extreme Russian nationalists about Putin’s commitment to Russian ideology reduce Putin’s appeal to the nationalist community, while mobilization and high casualties will likely continue to upset members of the Russian society.

Given this dynamic, I don't think Putin can afford to negotiate much if at all, as it will look like backtracking on his fundamental war aims, thus making him look weak in the eyes of the Russian public as well as these Kadyrovites, Wagnerites, and the milbloggers there. Surrendering their territorial seizures would make Putin's war look worse than useless -- and likely endanger his regime's survival.

[Belacqua]

So when I say “I know how such systems or such people operate” believe me, I do.

Understood.

I certainly have no love for Erdogan. People often think that because I criticize the US, it means I love Putin or some other unpleasant alternative. Believe me, it's possible to dislike all of them.

Rather than being a cheerleader for one team or the other, it's possible to see them all more like billiard balls, and realize that if one of them behaves in a certain way, the laws of physics are going to cause the others to react in ways that are predictable. None of them is innocent, none of them operates in a vacuum.

[The Architect Of Fate]

Understood.

I certainly have no love for Erdogan. People often think that because I criticize the US, it means I love Putin or some other unpleasant alternative. Believe me, it's possible to dislike all of them.

We criticize the US too we just donat constantly shit on it and constantly push Pro-Russian narratives from Pro-Russian sources. The line between Anti- War or Anti- US Imperialism and being a Pro-Russian Shill or at the very least an Anti-Western shill has been crossed in your case.

Rather than being a cheerleader for one team or the other, it's possible to see them all more like billiard balls, and realize that if one of them behaves in a certain way, the laws of physics are going to cause the others to react in ways that are predictable. None of them is innocent, none of them operates in a vacuum.

And this is nonsense. It's not a matter of being a cheerleader or believing one group is perfectly good it's clearly knowing when one side is clearly in the wrong and in this case Russia is clearly in the wrong. There is no excuse for their actions and no valid reason not to help stop them even if the actors trying to stop them aren't saints.

To reuse a Sci-Fi/Fantasy analogies you can object to the actions of The Rebel Alliance in Star Wars and still recognize The Galatic Empire was unquestionably evil. You can criticize Men and Elves and Dwarves for their many petty and vile acts and still recognize that Sauron is evil incarnate in Lord Of The Rings. Sometimes evil really is just evil and sometimes it's the opposition is simply highly flawed.

[LinuxGal]

Russian state TV’s still trying to put a positive spin on retreat.

Kiselev: “We’ll get Kherson back. Withdrawal across the Dnipro is tactical, rational, even if deep inside we don’t want to accept it. We preserve our fighting ability & improve logistics to supply new lines.

When the troops strategically withdraw back into Russia proper, the supply logistics are going to be absolutely stunning. NATO will capitulate there and then, and Putin will maybe accept Uncle Sam's surrender.

[Belacqua]

NATO will capitulate there and then, and Putin will maybe accept Uncle Sam's surrender.

I'm glad to see acknowledgment that NATO and the US are combatants here -- not just Ukraine. Some have refused to accept that this is a proxy war.

[HappySkeptic]

I'm glad to see acknowledgment that NATO and the US are combatants here -- not just Ukraine. Some have refused to accept that this is a proxy war.

A proxy war is where two powers support opposite sides in a conflict because they want ultimate control of the territory.

Russia isn't supporting one side -- it is the side, and they are the only ones wanting to control the territory.

Yes, Ukraine is fighting a war that Europe can't afford to lose.  Giving that much territory, with its resources, to an enemy aggressor which is expanding onto their borders, is their war too.  Honestly, they shouldn't just be supporting Ukraine -- they should be sending troops (perhaps not as NATO, but just as European allies).

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

NATO will capitulate there and then, and Putin will maybe accept Uncle Sam's surrender.

I'm glad to see acknowledgment that NATO and the US are combatants here -- not just Ukraine. Some have refused to accept that this is a proxy war.

Is there a shortage of sarcasm appreciation in Japan?

Boru

[Belacqua]

A proxy war is where two powers support opposite sides in a conflict because they want ultimate control of the territory.

OK, half proxy war. The US does want to control what Ukraine does -- as was demonstrated by them choosing the government in the 2014 coup.

Russia isn't supporting one side -- it is the side, and they are the only ones wanting to control the territory.

The US does want to control what happens in Ukraine. It wants to control what it does with its military, and what its government does. 

The goal here is not to leave Ukraine independent. The goal is to make Ukraine do what the US thinks the US needs. 

Also the huge number of loans to Ukraine will mean that after the war its economy will largely be controlled by the institutions who loaned the money, which is one of the ways the US controls many foreign governments. 

Yes, Ukraine is fighting a war that Europe can't afford to lose.  Giving that much territory, with its resources, to an enemy aggressor which is expanding onto their borders, is their war too.  Honestly, they shouldn't just be supporting Ukraine -- they should be sending troops (perhaps not as NATO, but just as European allies).

There already are US military people in Ukraine. If it gets to the point where they are blatantly involved in combat, with video of troops doing the fighting, that's WWIII. Happy WWIII to everyone. 

In other news, the US and other countries have lifted sanctions on Russian exports of fertilizer. And sales of Russian energy to non-combatant countries continues to grow.

[The Architect Of Fate]

I'm glad to see acknowledgment that NATO and the US are combatants here -- not just Ukraine. Some have refused to accept that this is a proxy war.

They didn't acknowledge any such thing. Nor were they claiming it was a proxy war. God, you are dishonest....