Theists - what convinced you?

[Tiberius]

Please don't quote entire conversations. Edit out the irrelevant bits.

[The Piper]

Please don't quote entire conversations. Edit out the irrelevant bits.

Sorry. Will do in future.

[Disinter]

Please don't quote entire conversations. Edit out the irrelevant bits.

My bad, man.

[tavarish]

It's not an exercise in trying to understand though, it's an exercise in self righteousness and delusion. I can be self important and deluded too!

Yay for irrelevant statements!

I don't understand why you guys disbelieve. It is like this universe, this reality, is all a free lunch too you. Oh it's all by chance, blind luck, there is no mystery here.

Are you actually trying to make the point that the universe is devoid of mystery when you adopt a scientific point of view?

This school of Atheism (the I'm right, you're wrong school) is best captured in the Million monkeys paradox. You guys seem to beleive that a million monkeys on a million typewriters in a million years would eventually punch out a Sonnet.

Your broken understanding of how probability works astounds me, even to this day. I'm guessing you didn't need to take a class in that, as the internet showed you everything you needed to know.

That randomness can create something of absurd complexity. I choose to disagree. But it gets tiring with the youngins rabbling around the room banging pot lids together pretending that I have a mental deficiency because I choose to disbelieve in the million monkey paradox.

So you disagree that randomness can create complexity?

Do you understand that probability is a scientific value, not a belief?

We hear you Tav, you think you're smarter/better than some of us, I get it. Move on.

You've written all of this and have yet to answer one of my fucking questions.

To answer your question, the same thing that made you an Atheist made me a Theist.

A disbelief in God made you a believer of God?

I saw most of modern popular Atheism as disinformation intent on control. Dawkins is full of shit. So I beleive.

I've told you time and time again, I don't give a flying fuck WHAT you believe. What I find fault in is how you don't seem to back up your assertions with ANYTHING credible.

Same as reasoning 'the bible is full of shit' (something you could get me to agree with you on) and then using that as evidence to disbelieve in god.

Again with a broken concept of burden of proof and evidence.

The thing that is wrong with religion is the control, and the division.

This has nothing to do with the subject of the conversation.

It is not belief in God that flies people into towers, in fact a belief in God would dissuade someone from such a course of action. It is fanaticism.

Who the hell said belief in God flies people into towers? Your logically fallacious arguments aren't productive, nor have they ever been in my experience. Just red herrings flying off the screen.

It is thinking you are right and everyone else is wrong. It is thinking you are better than other people. That is the flaw. And modern Atheism, in many incantations (although it can be polite and respectful) is rude and self righteous. You demand the right to think what you will, and scorn anyone who doesn't think what you think. Consider the double standard there.

....more of the same argument no one asked for.

So go on and on about your hatred for god and his followers, but try to realize you have been compromised. This whole argument is part of the trick. I choose to be unimpressed and curt with you, but respect you right to think freely, as I demand the right to also think freely myself.

thank you for your interest,
-Pip

1. Don't put words in my mouth. I hate no one.
2. I haven't been compromised as you haven't presented a damn thing in favor your argument, just a whiny tirade about rudeness and how you don't like Dawkins and his ilk. I can't say I'm surprised anymore. It's just more of the same drivel.

---

What is your definition of God?
Creator of all things.

Given your repsonse,

Where did God come from?

How do you know this to be true?

What convinced you that God exists?
The creation.

Define "The creation", please.

You can describe a specific event, revelation, or series of events that led you to your belief.
My life's journey.

Please be specific. "My life's journey" doesn't have any explanatory value to anyone if they don't have specific details regarding the claim in question.

[The Piper]

Firstly, where did God come from?
Nowhere. He always was.

How do I know this to be true?
The creation itself is evidence for the creator. Time is part of God's creation, God exists outside the confines of time.

Define "The creation", please.
The universe and everything in it.

Please be specific. "My life's journey" doesn't have any explanatory value to anyone if they don't have specific details regarding the claim in question. The question being "describe a specific event, revelation, or series of events that led you to your belief".
I have already stated somewhere in a thread, maybe even this one that it would take too long. Besides which, I don't think you would be interested.

[tavarish]

Firstly, where did God come from?
Nowhere. He always was.

Why couldn't creation be eternal?

How do I know this to be true?
The creation itself is evidence for the creator. Time is part of God's creation, God exists outside the confines of time.

You didn't establish anything. You just regurgitated the previous point and added a baseless assertion.

Finish these sentences.

I believe God is the creator of the Universe because _________________.

I know this information to be true because _____________________.

Define "The creation", please.
The universe and everything in it.

How can you make a judgement call about something that occurred OUTSIDE of the universe - which by definition, is: All matter and energy, including the earth, the galaxies, and the contents of intergalactic space, regarded as a whole.?

Please be specific. "My life's journey" doesn't have any explanatory value to anyone if they don't have specific details regarding the claim in question. The question being "describe a specific event, revelation, or series of events that led you to your belief".
I have already stated somewhere in a thread, maybe even this one that it would take too long. Besides which, I don't think you would be interested.

I don't ask questions to have them go unanswered. You don't have to copy and paste, but at least provide a link. The time you took writing that vague response took longer than searching for a thread, finding it, and pasting a link to it here.

You added numerous attributes to your God, none of which were in the initial definition. I urge you to first define him clearly, then demonstrate how such an entity exists.

[The Piper]

Why couldn't creation be eternal?
Think about the question you just asked.


You didn't establish anything. You just regurgitated the previous point and added a baseless assertion.

Finish these sentences.

I believe God is the creator of the Universe because _________________. the Universe is his creation.

I know this information to be true because _____________________. the creation needs a creator.

I like playing fill in the blanks.

I am not going to go into a long winded explanation of my life and how it led me to believe what I believe. As I have aged and pondered on my surrounds and seen the creation first hand, over a period of time it has led me to these beliefs. I cannot single handedly point out a single thing that has made me open my mouth in awe and suddenly realise there must be a God, it has been a gradual development.

[tavarish]

Why couldn't creation be eternal?
Think about the question you just asked.

I did, that's why I asked. Why couldn't creation, using your definition of "The universe and everything in it", be eternal?

I like playing fill in the blanks.

I am not going to go into a long winded explanation of my life and how it led me to believe what I believe. As I have aged and pondered on my surrounds and seen the creation first hand, over a period of time it has led me to these beliefs. I cannot single handedly point out a single thing that has made me open my mouth in awe and suddenly realise there must be a God, it has been a gradual development.

So other than vague rhetoric, you have nothing?

[The Piper]

I did, that's why I asked. Why couldn't creation, using your definition of "The universe and everything in it", be eternal?
That's a little better, thank you for the clarification. After all, every creation must have a creator otherwise it ain't a creation.
I believe that the Universe and everything in it has been designed, that's why I believe it has a designer and therefore it cannot be eternal. The designer had to exist before it's inception. It's a logical sequence.

So other than vague rhetoric, you have nothing?
On the contrary, I have a very sound view, it just does not agree with yours.

[tavarish]

That's a little better, thank you for the clarification. After all, every creation must have a creator otherwise it ain't a creation.
I believe that the Universe and everything in it has been designed, that's why I believe it has a designer and therefore it cannot be eternal. The designer had to exist before it's inception. It's a logical sequence.

It's not logical because you still haven't demonstrated why it necessarily had to have been designed, even moreso by a particular, undefined designer. You're not backing up your claims with anything.

So other than vague rhetoric, you have nothing?
On the contrary, I have a very sound view, it just does not agree with yours.

Which is....?


Be specific.