Natural Evil

[Gambit]

I'm sure the Christian "free will" is just an illusion, as "God has a plan for us all".

You have just described Calvinism. I favor a type of Calvinism or did when I was agnostic...I can't through good conscience support Calvinism though because likewise, it promotes bigotry and a caste-like system.

"Caste" dammit, that was the word I was looking for earlier in another, totally unrelated, conversation.

[Godscreated]

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You are the on who asserted that my life is less, because of my faith in Christ. I'm only pointing out that I was once an unbeliever, now through my faith in Christ, I stand on the other side of the fence, I know the peace that exist in my life that was not there before. I see in your responses you do not have the peace in your life that is within mine, my responses use to be like yours. I did not mean that I'm better than you, what I am saying God has made me a better person. I stand on the other side of the fence looking back (hind sight) and recognize the difference in my life, a difference that I'm grateful for, which came through Christ, it's not what I did, it's what I accepted into my life.
I would not assume that you were a believer because you would engage in an argument that assumed God's existence, I may not be the brightest apple in the barrel, I however am not stupid.

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Well, what your above assumption fails to account for is that my life is perfectly peaceful. In fact, life has never been better. You cite your faith as the reason that you feel at peace, whereas I cite my freedom from faith as mine.

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I know it's sort of off-topic but here are a few examples of problems I have with religions and people of faith, in general:

• Institutions such as the Vatican, who are so rich it's disgusting. There is no need for any religious institution to own such riches.

Well I'm not Catholic, so I do not know how much money they have, why should a religious institution be any different than corporations that have billions and refuses to pay their employs fair wages or give them good health insurance. I'm well aware of what has happened with priest and young boys, that is completely unacceptable. I also know that the Catholic church does a lot of good works throughout the world that these super rich corporations would not consider doing. If you want to throw stones at the Church fine, just do what's right and throw stones all the others that fit into your definition.

The fact that many people of faith have told me I am evil; devoid of morality; surrounded by darkness (More evil); and a number of other things - not because of my deeds - but because of a lack of belief.

So, you find it OK to condemn all Christians because of a few who offend you. Maybe it would be good to adopt a Christian belief that many Christians hold to, forgive those who offend you. Atheist call me deluded, crazy, full of____, stupid, ass____, and so many other choice phrases. Why, because of what I do, no, simply because I believe in Christ, sound familiar. I forgive them, they will not have any control or effect on my christian faith.

Religious people who excuse the wrong actions of their brothers and sisters - often going as far as to cover them up.

That bothers me also, know what else bothers me, this very thing happens in all walks of life, in every social group, again I find forgiveness
the best thing for my life.

Religions that preach that God has a plan for countries/people who suffer the most; which in turn, enables many people of faith to sleep with a clear conscience, while continuing to do nothing to help.

Religions that help ensure that homosexuals do not receive the same legal rights as heterosexuals, based on the instructions of their holy texts.

Homosexuals have all the rights of everyone else in this country except for marriage, marriage as defined is between a man and a woman and that does not fit homosexual relationships. What would you have us do, compromise on what we believe, how fair is that to Christians. What would you compromise in your beliefs to allow prayer in school.

So if I appear unhappy or angry while debating with you, the above reasons are unusually playing a part in my attitude. When I am not debating these matters I am perfectly placid. The attitude I display here is not because I am bitter from the absence of God, it is the presence of people, who (despite their claims to the contrary) think they are better than me morally; intellectually; ethically or otherwise, based on the fact that they believe in a God or Gods.

Your attitude is a part of you and stating what part of your life is like and to me it says you're not always happy and placid. I know I'm not always happy, but I do always have the peace of Christ and if one doesn't have that one doesn't know what that does in one's life. Anyone who believes those things you stated in the bold may not have experienced the grace of God or their ignoring the commandments of Christ. You need to remember Christians are not sinless, they are to sin less, but we are forgiven by God and because of that we should remember not to treat others badly.

[Gambit]

Well I'm not Catholic, so I do not know how much money they have, why should a religious institution be any different than corporations that have billions and refuses to pay their employs fair wages or give them good health insurance. I'm well aware of what has happened with priest and young boys, that is completely unacceptable. I also know that the Catholic church does a lot of good works throughout the world that these super rich corporations would not consider doing. If you want to throw stones at the Church fine, just do what's right and throw stones all the others that fit into your definition.

I'm the admin of a page called 'Banksy Facebook Revolution'. We condemn any institution that is greedy and corrupt. I hold no special place in my heart for religious institutions. If you're manipulating people for your own wealth and not giving anything back, then you are going to incur my wrath. I know that many churches do great things; and I'd even go as far as to say that I'm of the opinion that reform would be better than complete abolition.

So, you find it OK to condemn all Christians because of a few who offend you. Maybe it would be good to adopt a Christian belief that many Christians hold to, forgive those who offend you. Atheist call me deluded, crazy, full of____, stupid, ass____, and so many other choice phrases. Why, because of what I do, no, simply because I believe in Christ, sound familiar. I forgive them, they will not have any control or effect on my christian faith.

I believe that the word "many" should have been your clue here. I also have "many" Christian friends - in fact - two of them write for my blogs. We discuss matters of morality etc. often; and those discussions do not involve judgement from either party.

That bothers me also, know what else bothers me, this very thing happens in all walks of life, in every social group, again I find forgiveness the best thing for my life.

Oh I don't hold any contempt towards anyone. However, I'll fight to make sure that right is done, before I can even begin to worry about forgiving.

Homosexuals have all the rights of everyone else in this country except for marriage, marriage as defined is between a man and a woman and that does not fit homosexual relationships. What would you have us do, compromise on what we believe, how fair is that to Christians. What would you compromise in your beliefs to allow prayer in school.

Not in the U.S. they don't. I don't believe that churches etc. should be forced to marry homosexuals. I specifically referred to legal rights, which most religions are actively campaigning against. I'm not against prayer in school - I am only against prayer being forced on those with different beliefs. If it's in the classroom then it is not inclusive. Unless you're going to spend the whole lesson catering to every student, from a variety of religions. Or are you referring only to allowing Christian prayer in schools?

Your attitude is a part of you and stating what part of your life is like and to me it says you're not always happy and placid. I know I'm not always happy, but I do always have the peace of Christ and if one doesn't have that one doesn't know what that does in one's life. Anyone who believes those things you stated in the bold may not have experienced the grace of God or their ignoring the commandments of Christ. You need to remember Christians are not sinless, they are to sin less, but we are forgiven by God and because of that we should remember not to treat others badly.

That doesn't necessarily follow as true. You concede that you are not always happy and placid, then go on to say that because you have the peace of Christ it makes it all better. When I get angry and frustrated I look to nature; the good in people; my children's smiles; read a good book; watch a funny movie etc. and I feel peace. When I treat others badly I too feel regret and remorse, then I correct my actions by apologising and making amends. I'm not really getting where you are going with this, by way of a counter argument.

[Godscreated]

@ gringoperry I was not necessarily giving counter arguments. Sometimes people just answer questions, or state how they feel.