Per request, here's some target practice.

[theblindferrengi]

It is quite valid, and unfortunately there are link buttons in by browser that can get in the way.

Anyway, here is my response that does not hurt Adrians eyes.

A- Within our universe 99.9% of "things" have a cause.

100% of things have a cause

a1- The human race should have a cause.

It does.

a2- If Natural selection is the cause of the above then nature needs a cause.

Nature is the present state of the universe, it's cause is every cause for every current state.

a3- Matter that exists can not come from nothing.

No, but it can come from energy, other matter, and any combination of the two.

a4- Matter then also needs a cause.

Matter comes from energy.

a5- The laws of nature and nature itself as well as all mater should have a cause. This cause would have to be more complex and powerful than anything we have yet to encounter.

By definition, energy is the most powerful thing, and the only powerful thing. We don't understand energy, it can be incredibly complex, and very simple. The laws of nature are just what we call the way we percieve the world.

a6-Aside from a complex super-intelligent, super powerful alien species presents itself (which we assume they would have already) the best cause would be a singular source.

The source of the universe as we know it is believed to be the big bang singularity, a ppoint in space and time comprised of all the matter and energy in the universe in the form of energy. It could not stay that way for more than an infinitely small amount of time, so it expanded, and some of it was converted to matter.

a6- The best cause IMO is God, due to his nature of existing outside the universe, having the attribute of creator, and all powerful.

The universe is a term to describe everything that exists, and if ChristianGod is outside the universe, then it must not exist.

B- A extremely large percentage of our perceivable (neither macro or micro) day to day lives world appears to have design.

Because we design everything we can that is in our perception.

b1- The cell is considered the smallest unit of matter alive.

Cells that comprise larger organisms are alive in the same sense that viruses are alive, as they are not self sustaining.

b2- Cells that reproduce show structure and formation and have a purpose or direction of action.

Only cells that comprise larger organisms. The self sustaining cells do not have organization.

b3- Out of all the atoms, photons, light wavelengths and stars in the universe it is unlikely to prove by randomness that life came from non-life.

All the universe has infinite capacity and infinite time, so of course every posible variation will happen. And are living things really that different from non-living things?

b4- Something would have to “breathe life” into lifeless atoms based off of A.

Again, are living things really that different from non-living things.

b5- It would take a lot less faith (since faith is required by both with current understanding) to believe that we were designed by a creator rather than believe life from un-life. Due to God’s attributes in the creation story it’s more likely to believe in 1 simple answer until science can put life into un-life, which (based off various religions) was only attributed to Gods in the past.

It is incredibly naive to think science is at its zeinith, that science will never be able to create life, and ChristianGod magically did something like that. Hey, Guess what DNA is made of? Guess what scientists can make? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amino_acid_synthesis Science is on its way to producing life, and is getting close.

C - Synchronicity - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronicity

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem

D- The holy spirit
d1- There is a voice in side me that doesn't speak when I expect it to.

Good for you, you can think!

d2- It comes at inopportune times when I wish I didn't have to hear what it said.

Because you were taught the difference between what society consideres right and wrong.

d3- It tells me of things I could have no knowledge of and guides me to things listed in C above.

Look! There is a grey cloud. If I predict rain, that is hardly devine knowlege, that is just reasoning from past experiences.

d4- This thing helps me understand when lost, speak when ask, and see when blind.

That is just learning from your surroundings, and processing what you see to make rational conclusions.

d5- It manipulates the chemicals in my body when I wish it wouldn't, sometimes to my betterment, sometimes to mockery.

If ChristianGod was responsible, don't you think that the chemical reactions of the chemical based computer that is you would only act to your betterment?

d6- Because of a 24 hr amnesia (car accident) I can discern experienced reality and rationalized reality.

I can tell the difference between what is real and what is imaginary too, and it didn't take a car accident, or one of thems ChristianGod things to do so.

d7- Those around me don’t perceive me as delusional, nor do I perceive myself to be.

Good for you, you can act normal in society.

d8- I can't discernibly say for sure but I see no reason for it to very likely come from an intangible extraneous source.

ChristianGod is an intangible, extraneous, and arbitrary source.

E- The bible
e1- A historic written collection of stories, perceptions and ideals.

Cool! A storybook. While very interesting, it is no more true than The DaVinci Code.

e2- Written from the POV of multiple authors all relatively pointing towards the same truths.

Just because the story has a moral doesent make the details true.

e3- Has some historic content, but mostly subjective, however this doesn't contend falseness nor any conspiracies.

Nor does this contend truthness or any honourability.

e4- When I read it in the most contextual and simple method I see little to no contention within it.

Because the most contextual and simple method provides no scrutiny.

e5- Including the dead sea scrolls and apocrypha, they all describe in detail the attributes I see as reflecting God’s nature. Last time I checked, the bible was the only provision for the paramaters of ChristianGod.

[quote=tackattack]F- Free will (or the perception of)
f1- particularly good article on my feelings here. http://www.ucg.org/bsc/04/freedomchoice.htm

Hmm, seems such a setup would work against ChristianGod. Just remember, all the information we have about ChristianGod was generated by humans, and not ChristianGod, so it is pretty much gossip.

G- Our understanding of our universe always falls short of absolutes.

But is constantly improving.

g1- "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct your paths" (Proverbs 3:5-6)

That is not saying that you won't understand, that is saying your understanding is wrong nomatter what, which is very naive.

g2- Having the "blank cheque" of God isn't a convenience, I'd personally rather have all of the answers.

Then dont be lazy, and work towards finding them.

g3- Where our understanding fails, God is there to provide understanding , and has in the past.

ChristianGod is not responsible for any wisdom that has been packaged and sold by religion.

g4- Standards without absolute goals fall short of the perfection required in the pursuit of truth.

If you have no goals thn you are a failure. Perfection is not required to persue the truth, for if you are perfect, you know the truth already.

H- Not only human perception but human sense falls short of capturing even a small portion of our reality.

This does more against an argument of ChristianGod than anything.

h1- You eyes see everything, but our minds only subconsciously can focus on minutiae.

Your eyes see only a small portion of the radiation specterum. Our perception is not dependent on our eyes though.

h2- That subconscious access is extremely difficult because our focus of will determines our perception.

Our paradigm is dificult to change, but it can shift. When it does not though, but needs to, this creates parities in our understanding of the world.

h3- This varying scale of perception would then likely have a maximum and minimum.

Any limitations on our perceptions are entirely self imposed.

h4- By God’s attributes listed he is the most likely source for the maximum of this scale.

Those who subscribe to the belief that humans are like stupid cattle of ChristianGod, this is true because their paradigm makes it so. They could be changed if they so choose.



And here is the eye-hurting version.

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A- Within our universe 99.9% of "things" have a cause. 100% of things have a cause
a1- The human race should have a cause. It does.
a2- If Natural selection is the cause of the above then nature needs a cause. Nature is the present state of the universe, it's cause is every cause for every current state.
a3- Matter that exists can not come from nothing. No, but it can come from energy, other matter, and any combination of the two.
a4- Matter then also needs a cause. Matter comes from energy.
a5- The laws of nature and nature itself as well as all mater should have a cause. This cause would have to be more complex and powerful than anything we have yet to encounter. By definition, energy is the most powerful thing, and the only powerful thing. We don't understand energy, it can be incredibly complex, and very simple. The laws of nature are just what we call the way we percieve the world.
a6-Aside from a complex super-intelligent, super powerful alien species presents itself (which we assume they would have already) the best cause would be a singular source. The source of the universe as we know it is believed to be the big bang singularity, a ppoint in space and time comprised of all the matter and energy in the universe in the form of energy. It could not stay that way for more than an infinitely small amount of time, so it expanded, and some of it was converted to matter.
a6- The best cause IMO is God, due to his nature of existing outside the universe, having the attribute of creator, and all powerful. The universe is a term to describe everything that exists, and if ChristianGod is outside the universe, then it must not exist.

B- A extremely large percentage of our perceivable (neither macro or micro) day to day lives world appears to have design. Because we design everything we can that is in our perception.
b1- The cell is considered the smallest unit of matter alive. Cells that comprise larger organisms are alive in the same sense that viruses are alive, as they are not self sustaining.
b2- Cells that reproduce show structure and formation and have a purpose or direction of action. Only cells that comprise larger organisms. The self sustaining cells do not have organization.
b3- Out of all the atoms, photons, light wavelengths and stars in the universe it is unlikely to prove by randomness that life came from non-life. All the universe has infinite capacity and infinite time, so of course every posible variation will happen. And are living things really that different from non-living things?
b4- Something would have to “breathe life” into lifeless atoms based off of A. Again, are living things really that different from non-living things
b5- It would take a lot less faith (since faith is required by both with current understanding) to believe that we were designed by a creator rather than believe life from un-life. Due to God’s attributes in the creation story it’s more likely to believe in 1 simple answer until science can put life into un-life, which (based off various religions) was only attributed to Gods in the past. It is incredibly naive to think science is at its zeinith, that science will never be able to create life, and ChristianGod magically did something like that. Hey, Guess what DNA is made of? Guess what scientists can make? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amino_acid_synthesis Science is on its way to producing life, and is getting close.

C - Synchronicity - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronicity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem

D- The holy spirit
d1- There is a voice in side me that doesn't speak when I expect it to. Good for you, you can think!
d2- It comes at inopportune times when I wish I didn't have to hear what it said. Because you were taught the difference between what society consideres right and wrong.
d3- It tells me of things I could have no knowledge of and guides me to things listed in C above. Look! There is a grey cloud. If I predict rain, that is hardly devine knowlege, that is just reasoning from past experiences.
d4- This thing helps me understand when lost, speak when ask, and see when blind. That is just learning from your surroundings, and processing what you see to make rational conclusions.
d5- It manipulates the chemicals in my body when I wish it wouldn't, sometimes to my betterment, sometimes to mockery. If ChristianGod was responsible, don't you think that the chemical reactions of the chemical based computer that is you would only act to your betterment?
d6- Because of a 24 hr amnesia (car accident) I can discern experienced reality and rationalized reality. I can tell the difference between what is real and what is imaginary too, and it didn't take a car accident, or one of thems ChristianGod things to do so.
d7- Those around me don’t perceive me as delusional, nor do I perceive myself to be. Good for you, you can act normal in society.
d6- I can't discernibly say for sure but I see no reason for it to very likely come from an intangible extraneous source. ChristianGod is an intangible, extraneous, and arbitrary source.

E- The bible
e1- A historic written collection of stories, perceptions and ideals. Cool! A storybook. While very interesting, it is no more true than The DaVinci Code.
e2- Written from the POV of multiple authors all relatively pointing towards the same truths. Just because the story has a moral doesent make the details true
e3- Has some historic content, but mostly subjective, however this doesn't contend falseness nor any conspiracies. Nor does this contend truthness or any honourability.
e4- When I read it in the most contextual and simple method I see little to no contention within it. Because the most contextual and simple method provides no scrutiny.
e5- Including the dead sea scrolls and apocrypha, they all describe in detail the attributes I see as reflecting God’s nature. Last time I checked, the bible was the only provision for the paramaters of ChristianGod.

F- Free will (or the perception of)
f1- particularly good article on my feelings here. http://www.ucg.org/bsc/04/freedomchoice.htm

G- Our understanding of our universe always falls short of absolutes. But is constantly improving.
g1- "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct your paths" (Proverbs 3:5-6) That is not saying that you won't understand, that is saying your understanding is wrong nomatter what, which is very naive.
g2- Having the "blank cheque" of God isn't a convenience, I'd personally rather have all of the answers. Then dont be lazy, and work towards finding them.
g3- Where our understanding fails, God is there to provide understanding , and has in the past. [ChristianGod is not responsible for any wisdom that has been packaged and sold by religion.[/b]
g4- Standards without absolute goals fall short of the perfection required in the pursuit of truth. If you have no goals thn you are a failure. Perfection is not required to persue the truth, for if you are perfect, you know the truth already.

H- Not only human perception but human sense falls short of capturing even a small portion of our reality. This does more against an argument of ChristianGod than anything.
h1- You eyes see everything, but our minds only subconsciously can focus on minutiae. Your eyes see only a small portion of the radiation specterum. Our perception is not dependent on our eyes though.
h2- That subconscious access is extremely difficult because our focus of will determines our perception. Our paradigm is dificult to change, but it can shift. When it does not though, but needs to, this creates parities in our understanding of the world.
h3- This varying scale of perception would then likely have a maximum and minimum. [b]Any limitations on our perceptions are entirely self imposed.[b]
h4- By God’s attributes listed he is the most likely source for the maximum of this scale. [b]Those who subscribe to the belief that humans are like stupid cattle of ChristianGod, this is true because their paradigm makes it so. They could be changed if they so choose.

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