(December 9, 2023 at 3:23 pm)Leonardo17 Wrote: While Jesus too made this separation between divine and earthly power or kingdom
Show me the lines from the Bible.
What do you mean by separation?
Do you mean that Jesus wants a human run government with no religious rules? I don’t think so.
The expectation that the jewish people had was that the royal class was going to come back. The savior was going to be someone sent by the jewish god to save Israel.
Besides, in ancient cultures, there was likely a tight integration between the king and the high priest and at times, they were the same person playing the role of king and mouthpiece of the gods.
This is an example of that kind of tight integration. This is how they did crime scene investigation back then:
Deuteronomy 21:1 KING JAMES VERSION
If [one] be found slain in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee to possess it, lying in the field, [and] it be not known who hath slain him: Then thy elders and thy judges shall come forth, and they shall measure unto the cities which [are] round about him that is slain: And it shall be, [that] the city [which is] next unto the slain man, even the elders of that city shall take an heifer, which hath not been wrought with, [and] which hath not drawn in the yoke; And the elders of that city shall bring down the heifer unto a rough valley, which is neither eared nor sown, and shall strike off the heifer’s neck there in the valley: And the priests the sons of Levi shall come near; for them the LORD thy God hath chosen to minister unto him, and to bless in the name of the LORD; and by their word shall every controversy and every stroke be [tried: ] And all the elders of that city, [that are] next unto the slain [man,] shall wash their hands over the heifer that is beheaded in the valley: And they shall answer and say, Our hands have not shed this blood, either have our eyes seen [it. ] Be merciful, O LORD, unto thy people Israel, whom thou hast redeemed, and lay not innocent blood unto thy people of Israel’s charge. And the blood shall be forgiven them. So shalt thou put away the [guilt of] innocent blood from among you, when thou shalt do [that which is] right in the sight of the LORD.
^^^^^These are the words of a people who are afraid of an invisible force, an invisible personality: the jewish god. They are worried that the jewish god will make the weather worst or will bring disease to their people if they don’t tell the jewish god that they had nothing to do with the murder.
(December 9, 2023 at 3:23 pm)Leonardo17 Wrote: The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3”
(Book of Paulus; Romans 13/ 1-7)
A christian once mentioned to me these lines.
I agree. It is essentially saying that you should obey your government.
These lines conflict with the jewish view that Rome is an evil and foreign empire that worships false gods.
It is quite probable that at this point in time (when Romans was written), some wars have taken place between Rome and Israel and Israel lost repeatably.
It is possible that Paul had accepted that they can’t beat Rome. It is quite possible that some romans and greeks had joined this new jewish sect and so, Paul had to accommodate them, make peace with them.
(December 9, 2023 at 3:23 pm)Leonardo17 Wrote: To sum up: There is no “divine ruler” As Jesus has said “My kingdom is not of this earth” + “Then give to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and give to God the things that are God's.” (Luke 20:25)
We discussed this in these forums once.
I think some said that Jesus or whoever wrote that line did not wish to start a war with the Romans. Some think that the text is written by clever roman spies who want to cool down the hot heads that are in some sects. I think one person said that Jesus is acting as a sellout, as someone who isn’t going to truly save Israel from Rome.
