RE: A thing about religious (and other) people and the illusion of free will
October 17, 2023 at 10:00 am
(October 17, 2023 at 9:38 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote:(October 16, 2023 at 1:40 pm)ShinyCrystals Wrote: The same can be applied to religion and God, as people who worship and support such people do not seem to go by their own perspective rather than those they support. It is like those people don't have a will of their own, and they are not free mentally because they rely on others rather than developing their own thoughts. It is hard to have free will when you are dependent too much on someone else and your thoughts are not your own.
You do see what I mean here, do you?
It's not so much that the thoughts aren't their own as a religion is explicitly normative and collective. A vision of how the world should be backed up by a sizeable community committed to the possibility that it could be and acting to effect it. Not just acting -in- the world, acting -on- it. Acting on themselves, acting on others, acting on the world around them. Whether we have a free will or not this is basically the most disadvantaged scenario for private decision making.
I think it helps to remember that religion isn't something that just happens to people. Nothing just happens. Things take time and planning and manpower and effort. Sure, you could be born into a religious family but you are not religious, yourself, until you participate in the religious effort. At that point questions of freedom in will and any number of other things are fundamentally moot. At that point, whether you freely willed it or not, you do believe that the world should be that way, and you do believe you have a duty to pitch in to that outcome. A religious person no longer needs to be compelled ..more accurately, they are or have become the compelling force themselves.
I do know all that. I probably should have mention that things like religion are rather taught, among other things.
I just think that humans, especially at a young age, tend to copy, or go with the behaviors as well as ideals of others, especially their families, and once they become hardcore thinkers or so dedicated to their beliefs, especially in regards to religion, they might not be “free” from doing what God(s) may want them to do, if you know what I mean, as sometimes, they may do what a so called “supreme being” may want them to do instead of what they think they should do on their own.
Even if free will and independent thinking are two different things, I would not call the people I am describing “independent” for reasons I described, as some people can’t seemingly think for themselves.
Maybe I shouldn’t have used the term free will here?