(September 28, 2015 at 2:58 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: It’s taken me a while to read through all the posts. I do not agree with the most of the conclusions of Drich and Godschild with respect to Natural Selection, but I do not think that makes them irrational. Nor do I consider that important. No matter how the physical reality was created, the Bible is absolutely clear that the God the Father is its Creator.
The OP is not just wrong, but insulting. Atheists do not have a monopoly on rational thinking and science. Nor does it mean that atheists are free of cognitive dissonance and delusion. Ontological naturalists continue making value judgments. Some atheists claim their lives can have meaning and purpose even while saying that the universe has no meaning or purpose. Some adhere to materialist dogma by ignoring their own felt experience. Etc. Etc.
I actually agree with this statement, almost completely. Where I draw the line (on agreement) is where you continue to claim, despite our best attempts to explain to you, why it's entirely possible to make value judgments despite being an "ontological naturalist".
From the Wiki article:
Quote:"Metaphysical naturalism, also called ontological naturalism, philosophical naturalism and scientific materialism is a worldview which holds that there is nothing but natural elements, principles, and relations of the kind studied by the natural sciences, i.e., those required to understand our physical environment by mathematical modelling. In contrast, methodological naturalism is an assumption of naturalism as a methodology of science, for which metaphysical naturalism provides only one possible ontological foundation. Broadly, the corresponding theological perspective is religious naturalism or spiritual naturalism. More specifically, metaphysical naturalism rejects the supernatural concepts and explanations that are part of many ."
I'm not sure why you persist in claiming that we cannot make "value judgments" unless we have a magical friend in the sky.
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
