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(September 23, 2015 at 4:40 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: I wrote a long response to this, but my computer's CAD program (I was doing work in the other window, and the big calculation apparently was too much alongside Chrome) crashed my computer, so it was lost.
Short version: You make a false assumption when you think we didn't feel all the things you feel about God, when we were Christians. I know that's what they tell you to think about us. That's what they told me to think about ex-Christians, when I was a Christian. But I felt the "presence of the Lord". I never once believed that God answers all prayers as we want Him to, and I know few Christians who think that. I even had a teeshirt that says, "God answers all prayers; sometimes the answer is no." I was moved to tears by worship and prayer, and told people all the things you're now telling us.
I later learned that my experiences were not unique to Christianity, and that religious ecstasy and "sensing a presence" is the norm, rather than the exception, among the deeply devout. I came to realize that I was feeling these feelings internally, not from an external source. Looking back, I am horrified by the cult-like teachings of my religion, which say that thinking for yourself is "pride", which tell you that you must first believe and then reject anything to the contrary, and that "man's knowledge" is to be rejected if it conflicts with doctrine.
(September 23, 2015 at 9:44 am)Drich Wrote:
Let me guess... (on your experience)
You wanted or needed something, you 'prayed' fervently (really meant it) or maybe even offered to give your life in service of God if only He would do this one thing... and you got silence.
So therefore you conclude their can't be a God because you made a sincere effort and nothing happened. Now you seek meaning in 'science' and call everyone who doesn't stupid. When you get called on your behavior, you pretend to not care what others believe, and quickly adopt a live and let live attitude. (even though you started a thread stating otherwise.) Now you are attempting to use Christian guilt to try and turn the tables of the conversation and put your attacker on his heels, because in truth you've run out of answers that sting...
that's a story that has been played out many many times here on this web site. I believe the vast majority of the atheist members here have a similar experience (praying and getting no response from God despite an earnest or very sincere need) Your angry because God didn't XYZ for you in your time of sincere need. Because you can't poop all over God you poop on those who claim to have what you could not make work.
So the question then becomes if their is a God and I/you earnestly tried to reach out why did I/you get no response?
Short Answer: Because your version of God does not exist, and the God of the bible will not support or block up your version of beliefs about God with answered 'prayers.' Why? I'll answer that by asking you, what if He did answer your prayers and you had a corrupt idea of Him? Would you then out of the blue, change what you believe and manifest a more accurate/biblically based picture of Him? or would you worship your version? The version who answered your prayers? Now what if God did not want you to worship any Other God except Him for some out of the blue reason? Do you truly think He should answer your or anyone most sincere prayer even if they had no idea who He really was?
Despite what you may think Jesus' answer was no to this question. That is what the parable of the wise and foolish builders was all about. (The wise man built his house on the Rock and the foolish man built his house on the sand. when the rains came the foolish man's house fell and the wise man's house stood firm.)
The house we build is our religious beliefs, it is essentially our faith. The parable teaches that two men can build/do identical things in worship all except one builds on who God really is (the rock) and the other builds on who they think God is (the sand) and when the winds and rains come (Trials of life that has one earnestly seeking and praying) The one who built on the rock will stand firm/will see God through His trial, and the foolish man's faith will fall down around him.
The fact that God allows your house to fall down around you is a blessing of sorts IF you are not a prideful person. If your Humble you will see this as an opportunity to rebuild on the rock, rather than on what you originally built your beliefs on. If however it is your belief that God should come to you on your terms and show you that He is all that He says He is... Then if you think about it He wouldn't be All that He says He is.
Edited to quote you so you get a "ping" notification. Sorry I forgot to, in previous entry.
Maybe, that is why the 'experience' of God is not centered around 'feelings.' But tangible testable experiences and real exchanges. Respectfully, if your whole experience with God was 'feeling' based, maybe that is why it failed when tested by the wind and rain.
